Subj: My thoughts
Date: 1/31/03 1:38:22 PM Eastern Standard Time
From:    DEFrye@armstrong.com (Dennis E Frye)
To:    pfunk1@aol.com

Below is a portion of an e-mail I sent to a creationist friend of
mine............What do you think?

    As for a reason for our existence..... it's as though the universe
created a way of understanding itself , US.   If you are looking for a
purpose for our existence,  there it is my friend.
  The declaration and affirmation of my beliefs has given me a profound
liberating experience that makes gut feelings seem like gas! I am no longer
kept awake at night by the screams of deceased friends and relatives
burning in hell because they were not "Born Again".
  The universe is an exquisitely elegant place in both the micro and the
macro that begs for our understanding. It's a shame that for too many
people the view is obscured by a book.

                                                Born OK the first time
                                                          Den

Subj:  no God....
Date: 4/30/2001 10:35:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From:
To: pfunk1@aol.com

You seem like an intelligent man,Albert Einstien was also an intelligent
man,but If you say that there is NO GOD you are going to end up in HELL along
with ALBERT! The bible is true whether you believe it or not! If you take
poison , you will die whether you belive it or not! Just because you cannot
see God does not mean he does not exist! Can you see oxygen? or radio waves?
but yet you breath! You listen to the radio! By not believing that there is
a God , you are falling into the trap of the DEVIL! He doesn't care about
you! If you think that you are to INTELLIGENT for GOD than you will go to
Hell! Just like SATAN thought he was to INTELLIGENT for GOD, , and GOD kicked
him out of Heaven! When you die , that is NOT the END! It's the BEGINNING ,
If you are a BELIEVER! Thats why GOD sent his SON JESUS! so we will not DIE ,
but have everlasting LIFE! John 3:16.....I hope that you will not deceive
yourself, and have an open mind before it's to late! I do not want to see
anyone go to HELL! Please wake up , before it's to late! Dieon Sanders became
a Christian......MC HAMMER became a Christian.......You are in good company
as a Christian!
GOD DID NOT CREATE DEATH, GOD CREATED LIFE! SATAN MADE DEATH!

this is a rebuttal to the letter i wrote way below-
(scroll down and read the yellow text first)
this is one is from my sista sister..

Subj:   Re: Am I Black Enuf for ya?
Date:   2/6/99 7:49:31 PM Pacific Standard Time
From:
To:     PFUNK1

You know I have so many problems with what you had to say that I don't know
where to begin.  I also don't know if I can clearly express myself here -

I need to talk to you personally.  But let me give you my take on your
frighteningly biased observations (biased because, as you know, I truly
believe that you have this adoration for white people that colors your
reasoning - and you can't even see it).

Black racism:  black folx do have a problem - but it is not the "usual"
form of racism that the majority suffers from (the kind that makes you
dislike, not trust, demean, etc. another group).  It is a reaction to
past experiences.  Real or otherwise, what is believed to be received
from the majority sets the stage.  What has happened to us historically,
or we believe has happened, or have understood to have happened, or is
still happening, makes many black folx angry, and, as a result, "racist".

The "N" word:  This word has historically been used by whites to express
and inflict racial hatred on blacks and blacks only.   It was used to
degrade, demean, and to remind black folx of all that we were not.  It
was used to separate us from them and to clearly draw the line of
difference.  It cannot, therefore, be used by the majority in an
offhand, joking kinda way - it conjures up too many nasty, painful
memories of  what our ancestors went through (and what some black folx are
still going through).  It reminds us and them of all that they have done
and how, through their actions, they have helped create the situation in
which many black folx find themselves today.
On the other hand, black use of the word is not the same.  Our intent is
not and has never been the same.  Black folx can't pick up the word and
swing it like an ax to chop another black person down because it applies
negatively to us all.  Further, since it applies negatively to us all
relatively evenly, we use it without the user taking the better-than
position or one-upping the "usee".  What's most interesting, though, is
that black folx have taken control of that word and have made it theirs
(ours).  We have diluted much of its impact through casual overuse.

Your  "White men can't jump" theory:  Historically, white men, or people,
for that matter, have not been on the receiving end of truly hostile,
overt, institutionalized racism which sought to destroy them.  Black
folx have had to endure so much rigid, negative, dehumanizing stereotyping
that we are most certainly sensitive to images of ourselves.  We've gone
from having predominant images of lazy, bug-eyed illiterates like Mammie
and Step-N-Fetch It (unsure of spelling) to those of gun-toting, crime-
spreein', baby-makin', English-butcherin', welfare recipients.  If you
check the images you see of us, how far do they vary?  How often do you
see a black character that is unlike any you've seen before?  How many of
those images actually represent who you are as black man?  How many truly
represent most of the black folx you know?  How often are we loving,
giving, caring, not living in the hood, and not dodging bullets in those
pictures?  How many are positive, in general?  On the flip side, how
many different images of white folx do you see?  Are they always
represented in, more or less, the same way?  Is that representation
usually positive or negative?  If you had an overall stereotype of
white people, is it positive or negative?  How much do you think the
images we see in ads, films, movies, and on the news influence our
perceptions of  others?  We have had to, for one reason or another, get
to know and understand whites to some degree to live in this world
(bankers, store managers, newscasters, police officers, teachers,
presidents and congressman).  They have NOT had to do the same.  Overall,
they do not know us - they know our stereotypes.  And they know these
stereotypes because of  the few images they see (many of which they  have
perpetuated through film and t.v.).

Black folx are battling negative stereotypes and have been for years.  We
just can't make a movie and walk away from the impression it makes --
it is always tacked on to who we are.

Marion Berry:  If I had a dollar for each nonblack, politician who truly
screwed up and got a slap on the wrist I'd be a rich woman.  Case and
point:  your president.

Advances:  I agree that negativity is rampant in the black community and
attitude is a major determinant in individual success.  But the complaints
in the black community aren't necessarily the same ones we had 30 years
ago.  Overt racism is easier to deal with in many respects than what we
are dealing with today.  For the most part you see it coming and can
evade or address.  But what we are dealing with today is much more elusive.
Many who have biases can't or don't even recognize them.  Yet they act on
them.

I have more to say and now I'm all hopped up....but I'm not gonna call
because I don't feel like goin' through it.  I tried to read your friend's
info but it was a little long so I kinda skimmed it....didn't really get
the impact.  Was really interested in what nonsense you were babblin'.

Write me when you really have something to say.

"im black and i think black folk are more racist than anybody-"
I don't think black folks are more racist than just about anybody;
any kinda folk can be racist provided they harbor some seriously fucked up
ill-will and act on those broad-based tendencies and misgivings; usually,
however, when we howl about racism, I always defer to the distinction b/n
institutional and individual; in an argument I once had with my
unfortunately extremely-right winged college friend, he flat out insinuated
that I should be more petulant about personal racism, the kind that spits
invective and fires you all up in your face moreso than the quiet
institutional kind-- but the racist in my face will always, by the
"mainstream" or by general accounts be construed as an "idiot" and
ignored or fired if he tries to practice what he preaches-- the
institutional kind, however, is the most insidious-- and can keep me
from a job, prevent me getting an education and skew our culture and
our history in a way that consistently promotes a sense of negativity,
a lack of identity, of bearing in the larger American and world historic
spectrum.  To nullify what makes me me: what I do, who I am and can be,
is more frightening than calling me "nigger" to my face-- both'll make me
want to kick ass though and both are evils, don't get me wrong;

(p.s.-- the reason why the institutional racism is so virulent and that
racism often has a more anglocentric underpinning, I think, is b/c our
political, economic, social and cultural means and outlets are largely
run by whites.  This goes w/o sayin' I know, but that was the underlying
point this past paragraph.  Just in case ya missed it.  Sorry.)

And let's not quibble over who in particular is racist, but check it,
I've always believed that black folks may harbor generalized hatred toward
groups of people-- but white racism to me seems an active component of our
times and our culture, as opposed to black or minority re-active racism;
again, racism is evil, period-- I'm not rationalizing, but I am making a
distinction that I see b/n the two

"how could such a small percent of the population put such a fear in the
majority not to use a certain word then they use that word themselves?"
As far as using "that word"-- there seems to be a growing disturbance in
young black men who are beginning to reject the colloquial, familiar use
of it-- "niggah" or whatnot.  There are some inherent contradictions in
using the very word on your own peeps which has done so much harm in the
past-- and from an oppressive source.  Why put "massa's" words in your
mouth?  It's a good and valid point.  Along those lines, I was tiring
quickly of Quentin Tarantino and other Hollywood hot shots using "nigger"
(and I DO mean with the "er" intact) like it was nothing for a couple of
white guys to talk to each other or to black (supposed) friends in that
manner.  I guess I like my entertainment with a little bit of diatribe in
it, but to glam up a derogatory word for the hell of it was highly annoying.

Again, it contradicts no matter how you cut it (esp. when you see my whole
bit below on PC and the media)-- b/c I knew a hard, hard, militant, "down"
sista at Berkeley who called her best friends-- black, white, latino and
otherwise-- "niggas."  Go figure.

But for now, it seems to me that when a group adopts a word and defuses it--
gays saying "fag," Italians calling each other "wops," Mexicans and other
Latinos using "mojado"-- it takes the sting out and says that by its sheer
usage, we know the word means nothing.  Lots of folks diasgree.
Empowering or self-depricating, the debate seems to keep rollin'....

Oh, also-- just cuz the majority sez something or does something, doesn't
mean the majority's correct or more righteous by sheer numbers.  Seems to
be some odd implication in that quote above.
 

"'white men can't jump.' if there would've been a movie called 'black men
can't (anything)', there would (have) been riots and picketing..."
As far as riots and picketing and cultural representations in the media---
Lawd Today! (thank you Richard Wright...)  American pop culture (and I'ma
piss off some folks here) is largely, largely, largely spawned from and
inter-related with black American culture.  Period.  Now that ain't all
good (there's a lot of biting going on-- and not enough props given to
the (black) originators-- but historically it's an incredibly strong point.

Take for example the first epic film by one of film's pioneers-- DW Griffith
and his horrendous "Birth of a Nation."  All about us.  The first "talky"
movie? Al Jolsen-- in goddamn "black-face."  The United State's true
original art form? Jazz (spawned from blues, which became r&b, which
spawned rock and fuckin' roll...)  The current and youngest and now hottest
youth culture/expression/aggression?  Nope, not Marilyn Manson and his
legion of goth folks; and no, country has officially been dethroned--
it's HIP-HOP.

All this is in response to the question about "White Man Can't Jump" and
such.  Like DW Griffith's menagerie of stereotypes (the man single handedly
gave us pickaninnies, brutes, uncle toms, shif'less negroes, coons and such),
misrepresentation in the media is alive, well and prevalent.  Check any
local evening newscast.  Check the words b/n the lines in the papers.
Ask why we hear about gangs but not gang truces.  Why the CIA conspiracy
stories broke and then bombed, but the follow-up stories confirming alot of
what was initially reported were ignored.  I think often with the media and
with pop, black folks are in a state of hyper-awareness and activity and
sensitivity.  Good or bad, we try to nip the bullshit at the bud and call
it when we see it.  Many other groups of minorities AND poor white folks
often find themselves disparaged as a group in the media-- even if it's in
a comedic setting or whatnot.  Now don't get me wrong.  I can't stand PC,
but I'll abide by what you want me to call you and such.  PC is alive and
well and I think a dubious standard by which we should live.  I don't want
to not-offend people so much and hold my tongue back so much (I'm obviously
not doing so here in this forum) that I'm actually being as oppressive as
right wing censor-gluttons like Jesse Helms.  That would be a HUGE hypocrisy.
But on the other hand, people don't react to "White Men Can't Jump" (or
maybe they did? anyone know? speak up...) b/c there isn't as much a stigma
placed on that particular representation.  It may not be right, but then,
you have a right to align with some white brothas and protest that shit.

Anyone remember that short-lived UPN show "Desmond Pfeiffer"?
Anyone see it? Few did, including the majority of folks who protested it
and subsequently got it kicked off the air.  Way too reactive. Way too PC.
Same with the "PJ's."  If it's a bad show, fine.  But damn, check it out
first and judge for yourself.  Again-- like my rxn to this poem and the
subsequent "Powerful Sister" one-- I'm not implying these ideas shouldn't
be presented or put us "all in a bad light."   I'm just bouncing back
ideas and concepts and constructs and trying to open this all up to bigger
discourse.
 

"How can a man be caught and convicted of smoking crack and be re-elected
mayor of a city?"
ps-- Marion Barry's re-election is no more or less representative of an odd
socio-political-judicial phenomenon than Ronald Reagan being re-elected,
Claus Von Bulow being cleared of attempted murder, the Rodney King verdict,
the fact that Jon Benet-Ramsey's parents are NOT yet convicted, the OJ trial..
etc, etc.; one needn't "peculiarize" black folks' rxn to political oddities--
one could always argue we learned from the best... (read: white folks in
politics); Barry's example is no exception to American (black or white)
political b.s.

to wrap it up---
"when a black man is walking down the street how come he will always say
what up to a brotha...."
I like how brothas say "what up" in the street-- I think it's inherently
amiable and gives a sense of solidarity, that obviously, doesn't fully exist--
yeah, we should all say hello to each other, but the practice I think came
from the 70s 'power' mvmt-- I remember the first time someone gave me the
"nod"-- it feels great-- I don't think there's any negative effect-- what?
white folks or other non-blacks feel "left out" by this? on university
campuses, though the "cluster" effect does have a strong tendency, I think
the "sup" we give each other is a nice way to keep the sometimes meager
number of folks together in some sort of way-- in sociological studies,
it's prob. considered part of the "fictive kinship" phenomenon and has a
much bigger history than I could elaborate here...

I'm gonna stop here (aren't ya'll glad?)-- but Jeff's "classic" up-side
positing that "we've come a long way" warrants more debate.... anyone else
care to jump in?

sc

-----Original Message-----
From:   Mitchell, Jeffery
Subject:        RE: Am I Black Enuf for ya?

im black and i think black folx are more racist than anybody-
on if its justified or not im not commenting...
 

things that make me go hmmmmm...

how could such a small percent of the populatuion put such
a fear in the majority not to use a certain word when they use
that word themselves? i was watching the news
the other day and they actually described it as "the "n" word."
name something that you could call a white person that rates like that...

"white men can't jump"
if there would have been a movie called "black men can't (anything)" ,
there would been riots and picketing...

marion berry
how can a man be caught and convicted of smoking crack
be re-elected mayor of a city?

when a black man is walking down the street how come he will
always say what up to a brotha (and not to a white dude) even if he
don't know him? is this racism?

estimates say black people make up less than 15% of the american population...
less than 1.5 out of 10, 15 out of 100, 150 out of 1000, etc-

and since im on a roll...

the people who say we haven't made advances and things aren't getting
better dont remember separate drinking fountains and things of that nature...
im not saying things are perfect and we shouldn't be striding for more gain,
i believe its the complaining, negative attitudes towards other races,
pessimism and "we ain't got nothing" that keeps "us" back more so than the
accused devil...

one time somebody jokingly told me i wasn't stressed enough-
too happy to be a brotha...

excuse me if this comes off as a tirade,
i just took a metabolife for the first time...

and oh yeah...i watch ally mcbeal-
 

http://www.pfunk1.com
pfunk1@aol.com
 
 

jeffery

 Happy Black History Month. Go get those Malcolm X stamps!

 ____________________Forward Header_____________________
 Subject:    Re: FW: Am I Black Enuf for ya?
 Author: 
 Date:       2/2/99 8:58 AM

      Subject:    Fw: Am I Black Enuf for ya?
 

         AM I BLACK ENUF FOR YA?
        By Keith Wilson

        If I told you that I couldn't rap or sing,
        that I couldn't dance to save my life,
        and that I don't even shoot hoops that well,
        would you say that I'm not black enuf for ya?

        If you saw that I don't wear big gold chains,
        that I don't have dreadlocks or a huge Jackson Five afro,
        or that I don't have a cool nickname like Ice or Smooth,
        would I not be black enuf for ya?

        If I don't drink Ripple, Crown, or Hennessey,
        if I've never sold drugs,
        and if I've never been arrested,
        am I not black enuf for ya?

        If I allow you to run a credit check on me,
        and you learn that not only do I have a job,
        but that I pay my bills on time,
        would you think that I'm not black enuf for ya?

        If I fail to start every sentence with "Yo', Dawg,"
        or if I refuse to refer to my sistas as bitches 'n hoes,
        am I not black enuf for ya?

        If I don't brag about having four kids by four different women,
        or if I don't eagerly proclaim that the white man is the devil,
        are you going to wonder if I'm black enuf for ya?

        If I don't cheat on my woman and diminish her self-esteem,
        Self-worth and place in society as the Queen that deserves to be,
        Does this mean I'm not black enuf for ya?

        If I secretly admit that I really do like Seinfeld,
        or that I actually know how to swim,
        or that I honestly think OJ did do it,
        would I not be black enuf for ya?

        See, I'm not sure,
        how many of your stereotypes do I have to fulfill
        before you reinstate my official ghetto pass?

        Where do I apply for admission to this mythical club of blackness
        that you seem to think I should belong to?

        Be-cuz the truth is-I KNOW who I am.

        See, long ago,
        I responded to this advertisement
        that ran in the newspaper of my mind:

        WANTED

        Hardworking, intelligent, and articulate individual,
        must be sensitive, but strong;
        philosophical, but playful.

        Candidate must have a pulsating passion for life,
        an unquenchable thirst for knowledge,
        and an unlimited supply of determination.

        Must be able to bear the weight of your history
        and to carry the hopes of your ancestors.

        Must also be able to demonstrate an ability
        to dream while awake, and a willingness to achieve
        by any means necessary.

        Qualified candidate must possess own recipe for survival,
        including the ability to locate a grain of laughter
        amidst a field of despair.

        It will be necessary to have rhythm in your soul
        and soul in your rhythm,
        along with a willingness to embrace sorrow
        and reject cowardly hatred.

        Physical requirements include arms that are long enough
        to reach back into the community,
        but are too short to box with God.

        Prefer skin that is like midnight satin,
        but am willing to consider creamy cocoa brown,
        Herschey's dark chocolate,
        honey-dipped high yellow,
        sun-kissed redbone,
        and even light, bright, and almost white.

        Can fall anywhere between Denzel fine
        and Dennis Rodman thru,
        between Coltrane's intensity and Miles Davis cool.

        Hair-optional; height-irrevelant;
        Priority consideration given to self-respecting,
        sure stepping, confidence oozing, brown-eyed,
        thick-lipped, wide-nosed warriors.

        Timid, shuffling, droop-shouldered,
        apologetic, self-loathing, self-destructive
        Uncle Clarence Thomases need not apply.

        If interested, please inquire within.

        So, if I show you my ID card that says
        "Grade A, Inspected, Certified 100% Sho' Nuff Brotha,"
        now, I ask you, then, will I be black enuf for ya?

Hey buddy!

Good question..."Who created God?" Remember, we were talking about
"physical" things in our conversation. We were also referring to "time
and space." When you're looking for answers within those types of
restrictions it would be difficult for anyone to answer the question "who
created God?". If you remove those restrictions (because if you think
about it, there is no "beginning" and "end" with time - it just "is")
then you open up a whole new dimension to your question, don't you think?
Then God, as a spirit being, doesn't necessarily HAVE to be "created."
I know it's deep, and may be confusing, but if you think about it, it
begins to make some sort of sense. "Time" itself has no beginning and
no end, we (man) give things a beginning and an end, beyond that you have
no control over the answers, things ARE or AREN'T, whether you "think"
so or not. You only have a 50-50 chance of being correct at that point.
Then it comes right back around to a choice, you either believe (based
on many truths we DO know and can put to the test) or you don't.
Everything lends itself to a consequence, though, whether we accept it
or not. Your consequence may be that there is nothing after this life.
Your consequence may be that you just become a part of this universe and
turn into a comet that flies around for eternity, I don't know. But there
is a consequence, whether you think the conseqeunce is bad or good is
your own thing...I didn't necessarily say a "consequence" was a negative
thing, it's just a consequence. I appreciate your view point on things,
though, it's very interesting. It's not usually my style to get into big,
heavy discussions, but you're cool about things, you're a funny dude.
I like talking with you. We're all trying to make it through this crazy
world of ours. Just don't ask me anymore of those hard questions,
like "who created God." Ha ha! I'm not smart enough for you, dude!

Keep Pfunking!

Hey, I have a question for you, who created the internet!